Comments on: What Green Economy? http://greengopost.com/what-green-economy/ Where Sustainable Meets Sensible Thu, 24 May 2012 22:53:20 +0000 hourly 1 By: Alan Travaglianti http://greengopost.com/what-green-economy/#comment-616 Alan Travaglianti Sat, 30 Jan 2010 20:54:03 +0000 http://greengopost.com/?p=2821#comment-616 I have been trying to make the transition from technical automotive sales to the "green renewable energy" manufacturing industry, and it has been a depressing experience. The USA does not have an energy policy, making coal, oil, and natural gas still the cheapest source of energy. This means the tremendous investment costs of fuel cell, solar panel, and wind turbine systems do not have a reasonable payback period for the investment. The installations I have observed and investigated only work if the cost of the system is subsidized by business energy tax credits and rebates from the states. In any economy, especially this one, such help in payback periods to "go green" are not sustainable. Conservation is right now the best payback system to use; reduce your energy usage; not produce you own electrical energy. The final insult is our federal government telling us that "green manufacturing" will be the next great manufacturing industry (replacing Chrysler, Ford, and GM?!) to create American jobs. Right. The green energy jobs are specialized and low volume at best. Even worse, like most manufacturing in the USA, we have already let foreign competitors become 5 - 10 years ahead of us in design and manufacturing since their governments already have energy policies, increased the price of coal, oil, and gas energy, and created viable green manufacturing companies. We have lost the initiative already and we have not even started. Sort of like the myth of "high-speed rail" in the USA. How do we vote for such systems naively thinking those systems will be built in the USA when the rest of the world already has the designs and manufacturing capability to supply these systems. Did I cheer anyone up yet? I have been trying to make the transition from technical automotive sales to the “green renewable energy” manufacturing industry, and it has been a depressing experience. The USA does not have an energy policy, making coal, oil, and natural gas still the cheapest source of energy. This means the tremendous investment costs of fuel cell, solar panel, and wind turbine systems do not have a reasonable payback period for the investment. The installations I have observed and investigated only work if the cost of the system is subsidized by business energy tax credits and rebates from the states. In any economy, especially this one, such help in payback periods to “go green” are not sustainable. Conservation is right now the best payback system to use; reduce your energy usage; not produce you own electrical energy.
The final insult is our federal government telling us that “green manufacturing” will be the next great manufacturing industry (replacing Chrysler, Ford, and GM?!) to create American jobs. Right. The green energy jobs are specialized and low volume at best. Even worse, like most manufacturing in the USA, we have already let foreign competitors become 5 – 10 years ahead of us in design and manufacturing since their governments already have energy policies, increased the price of coal, oil, and gas energy, and created viable green manufacturing companies. We have lost the initiative already and we have not even started. Sort of like the myth of “high-speed rail” in the USA. How do we vote for such systems naively thinking those systems will be built in the USA when the rest of the world already has the designs and manufacturing capability to supply these systems.
Did I cheer anyone up yet?

]]> By: Carolyn Allen http://greengopost.com/what-green-economy/#comment-576 Carolyn Allen Tue, 26 Jan 2010 22:41:23 +0000 http://greengopost.com/?p=2821#comment-576 I was intrigued by your experience at the show(s)... it does seem that entertainment is of more value / interest to Americans than survival or rebuilding our country. Oh well, I guess we will get what we deserve. I can't tell you hoe many times people have told me that "doing the right thing" just isn't feasible and is a waste of energy (I mean... time). :-) If we peek back in history we will see that other countries have fallen off their successful binges with a bang... England, China, Japan, Germany... the list is verrrry long. It looks like we're kinda on that same track...and lack of greener jobs is just a symptom of something deeper. Good writing! Thanks for sharing your insights. I was intrigued by your experience at the show(s)… it does seem that entertainment is of more value / interest to Americans than survival or rebuilding our country. Oh well, I guess we will get what we deserve. I can’t tell you hoe many times people have told me that “doing the right thing” just isn’t feasible and is a waste of energy (I mean… time). :-) If we peek back in history we will see that other countries have fallen off their successful binges with a bang… England, China, Japan, Germany… the list is verrrry long. It looks like we’re kinda on that same track…and lack of greener jobs is just a symptom of something deeper. Good writing! Thanks for sharing your insights.

]]> By: Tim Dawson http://greengopost.com/what-green-economy/#comment-572 Tim Dawson Tue, 26 Jan 2010 07:01:33 +0000 http://greengopost.com/?p=2821#comment-572 I can tell you what I am seeing from the perspective of a small solar company owner. I have been in the solar and alternative energy business since 1980. I have never seen the reality and the discussion so in conflict with each other. I do mostly solar thermal systems and predominately residential installations. What is happening is that most of my traditional customers are very reluctant to spend money in this economic environment. There are a lot of people entering the solar field as competitors so my work load has dropped substantially. The very wealthy and very committed are still buying but the biggest segment of the market is in wait and see mode. In Oregon there are quite a few really large installations (PV) going in because of the substantial State tax credits. The green economy will be very unequally distributed, so be careful if you are leaving a viable job to enter the green jobs field. It is my opinion that in the residential field there won't be a groundswell in installations until solar water heaters and small PV systems can be installed for a relatively small upfront cost. The other thing that has to be considered is that 60% of the cost of these systems comes from tax credits and rebates. I don't think these subsidies are sustainable. If installation volumes go up it will really start showing up in the budgets of these taxing bodies. Oregon is struggling right now with their business energy tax credit program. They had almost 10 times the expenditures for the program than anticipated and the legislature may have to trim the program. All this to say there is a gradual shift toward conservation, alternate energy and sustainable technologies. It will be greater in the future than in the past, but it will not qualify as a paradigm shift. And it will be spread out through a vast area of services and technologies. Tax credits and rebates are tenuous at best because all taxing agencies are getting deeper into crisis and will have to answer for all the money flowing into these programs. I hope the green jobs start showing up because it will be good for all of us, but I would advise against doing anything rash if you already have a viable job I can tell you what I am seeing from the perspective of a small solar company owner. I have been in the solar and alternative energy business since 1980. I have never seen the reality and the discussion so in conflict with each other. I do mostly solar thermal systems and predominately residential installations.
What is happening is that most of my traditional customers are very reluctant to spend money in this economic environment. There are a lot of people entering the solar field as competitors so my work load has dropped substantially. The very wealthy and very committed are still buying but the biggest segment of the market is in wait and see mode.
In Oregon there are quite a few really large installations (PV) going in because of the substantial State tax credits. The green economy will be very unequally distributed, so be careful if you are leaving a viable job to enter the green jobs field.
It is my opinion that in the residential field there won’t be a groundswell in installations until solar water heaters and small PV systems can be installed for a relatively small upfront cost.
The other thing that has to be considered is that 60% of the cost of these systems comes from tax credits and rebates. I don’t think these subsidies are sustainable. If installation volumes go up it will really start showing up in the budgets of these taxing bodies. Oregon is struggling right now with their business energy tax credit program. They had almost 10 times the expenditures for the program than anticipated and the legislature may have to trim the program.
All this to say there is a gradual shift toward conservation, alternate energy and sustainable technologies. It will be greater in the future than in the past, but it will not qualify as a paradigm shift. And it will be spread out through a vast area of services and technologies. Tax credits and rebates are tenuous at best because all taxing agencies are getting deeper into crisis and will have to answer for all the money flowing into these programs.
I hope the green jobs start showing up because it will be good for all of us, but I would advise against doing anything rash if you already have a viable job

]]> By: Mike http://greengopost.com/what-green-economy/#comment-571 Mike Tue, 26 Jan 2010 05:03:38 +0000 http://greengopost.com/?p=2821#comment-571 We all need some goals and leadership to guide us to new opportunities and jobs. Thus far we have promises but no action from government. As Tom Freidman has preached and written, we are having a party while the rest of world has gone through a revolution to become more sustainable. In a revolution, ways change and often times people get hurt. But the outcome is change, sometimes permanent and for the better. We need government to initiate change and to lead. Inflict the necessary pain, however politically wrong it may be, to get this revolution started. Once its in play the job market for green will have a foundation to work from. Need. Laws. Taxes. Incentives. How about a national can and bottle bill for starters. How horrible will it be to take back those empties. And Freidmans idea of promoting the development of alternate fuels by taxing crude. Now that hurts. But guess what.. the oil wells are now in our back yard, financed by Bankers with a gauranteed floor price established and subsidized indirectly by us. And that means jobs. This stuff really is simple, but it will be a discomfort to us all if it will ever have a chance to work. Lets suck it up and take our medicine now. We all need some goals and leadership to guide us to new opportunities and jobs. Thus far we have promises but no action from government. As Tom Freidman has preached and written, we are having a party while the rest of world has gone through a revolution to become more sustainable. In a revolution, ways change and often times people get hurt. But the outcome is change, sometimes permanent and for the better. We need government to initiate change and to lead. Inflict the necessary pain, however politically wrong it may be, to get this revolution started. Once its in play the job market for green will have a foundation to work from. Need. Laws. Taxes. Incentives. How about a national can and bottle bill for starters. How horrible will it be to take back those empties. And Freidmans idea of promoting the development of alternate fuels by taxing crude. Now that hurts. But guess what.. the oil wells are now in our back yard, financed by Bankers with a gauranteed floor price established and subsidized indirectly by us. And that means jobs. This stuff really is simple, but it will be a discomfort to us all if it will ever have a chance to work. Lets suck it up and take our medicine now.

]]> By: KI http://greengopost.com/what-green-economy/#comment-567 KI Mon, 25 Jan 2010 23:29:03 +0000 http://greengopost.com/?p=2821#comment-567 Time to create our own jobs, economy that are local. It is a paradigm shift back to sanity really when we look at how unsustainable everything we do it given peak oil. I really like what these gals are doing http://www.yourbackyardfarmer.com/ and would love to see franchises take off all over the country and world! Time to create our own jobs, economy that are local. It is a paradigm shift back to sanity really when we look at how unsustainable everything we do it given peak oil. I really like what these gals are doing http://www.yourbackyardfarmer.com/ and would love to see franchises take off all over the country and world!

]]> By: Susanna Speier http://greengopost.com/what-green-economy/#comment-564 Susanna Speier Mon, 25 Jan 2010 21:40:03 +0000 http://greengopost.com/?p=2821#comment-564 What an extraordinary rehash of the Expo (which I also attended) and its underlying hopes and disappointments. During the year following Obama's inauguration, I have published about 100 articles (in print as well as online) on the topic of clean tech, sustainability and eco-friendly initiatives. Like most freelancers I know, the exhaustive process of pitching, revising and staying on top of the beats is a a 24/7 commitment. The likelihood of eventually securing a 'sustainable' (ordinarily I steer clear of puns but in this case its impossible to resist) position in a company with a strong eco initiative in this economy, however, seems increasingly unlikely. Given my education, professionalism, blogging and social media expertise --not to mention the overall quality of my writing -- I would be a green initiative communication department's dream come true. Too bad everybody's downsizing. My impression of the Expo was that a disproportionately high percentage of the representatives there were also waiting for the Green Economy Deus ex Machina to arrive. Lucky for me, I also freelance... What an extraordinary rehash of the Expo (which I also attended) and its underlying hopes and disappointments. During the year following Obama’s inauguration, I have published about 100 articles (in print as well as online) on the topic of clean tech, sustainability and eco-friendly initiatives. Like most freelancers I know, the exhaustive process of pitching, revising and staying on top of the beats is a a 24/7 commitment. The likelihood of eventually securing a ‘sustainable’ (ordinarily I steer clear of puns but in this case its impossible to resist) position in a company with a strong eco initiative in this economy, however, seems increasingly unlikely. Given my education, professionalism, blogging and social media expertise –not to mention the overall quality of my writing — I would be a green initiative communication department’s dream come true. Too bad everybody’s downsizing. My impression of the Expo was that a disproportionately high percentage of the representatives there were also waiting for the Green Economy Deus ex Machina to arrive. Lucky for me, I also freelance…

]]> By: Phillip http://greengopost.com/what-green-economy/#comment-563 Phillip Mon, 25 Jan 2010 21:36:43 +0000 http://greengopost.com/?p=2821#comment-563 Well written article. I believe you need to continue your search, follow the money. I have a small business that markets water and energy saving devices to hotels, hospitals, college dorms and restaurants. Conservation of resources is acknowledged by many energy experts as the greatest return on investment. I and my business receive many updates from my state office of Energy Independence on the application of the Office of Recovery and Reinvestment (the so called stimulus package) Upon examination most of these funds are directed at theoretical applications from mostly large corporations, Universities or government agencies. These technologies have huge distribution and economic issues to overcome yet they get the funding while small business that offer products that can yield immediate results through conservation gets neat little media bits, and speeches. I think a person with your talents would do well to follow this money, billions of dollars this is where the green($$$) jobs are. Well written article. I believe you need to continue your search, follow the money.
I have a small business that markets water and energy saving devices to hotels, hospitals, college dorms and restaurants. Conservation of resources is acknowledged by many energy experts as the greatest return on investment. I and my business receive many updates from my state office of Energy Independence on the application of the Office of Recovery and Reinvestment (the so called stimulus package) Upon examination most of these funds are directed at theoretical applications from mostly large corporations, Universities or government agencies. These technologies have huge distribution and economic issues to overcome yet they get the funding while small business that offer products that can yield immediate results through conservation gets neat little media bits, and speeches. I think a person with your talents would do well to follow this money, billions of dollars this is where the green($$$) jobs are.

]]> By: Leon Kaye http://greengopost.com/what-green-economy/#comment-561 Leon Kaye Mon, 25 Jan 2010 16:50:03 +0000 http://greengopost.com/?p=2821#comment-561 Johnny: Thanks so much for the feedback. I hear a lot on both sides whether a down economy is a good or toxic time to change careers--I keep going back and forth, and I (and others, methinks) really appreciate your insight. I'm glad the expo was a great experience for you! LK Johnny:

Thanks so much for the feedback. I hear a lot on both sides whether a down economy is a good or toxic time to change careers–I keep going back and forth, and I (and others, methinks) really appreciate your insight. I’m glad the expo was a great experience for you! LK

]]> By: Johnny http://greengopost.com/what-green-economy/#comment-559 Johnny Mon, 25 Jan 2010 15:46:32 +0000 http://greengopost.com/?p=2821#comment-559 As a former employee for the recruiting firm Surrex, I can fully understand their complete ability to misquote and give poor advice for those seeking a career change. For many, this is the optimum time to change careers. With a recession, it is a time for industry to wipe out obsolete industries and career paths. The recession should be a clear indicator that if you are not in a sustainable line of employment, it's time to move on. The challenge is that many people will have to work harder to get into a new field like never before, to the point that they may have to create their own company to establish themselves in the industry. For the last 6 months, though still employed, I have been working diligently to move out of Aerospace and into Neighborhood Electric Vehicles. I went to Go Green Expo and made excellent connections with several bicycle and motorcycle manufactures and industry education groups such as Plug In America and non-profits looking for support. Mr. Van Dyke of Northrop had it right, it is much more about talking and networking than propping up job fairs like Mr. Peters and recruiting agencies like Surrex recommends. Job fairs are dead and prospective employees looking to go green are going to have to look at less conventional and radical methods to find employment in the future. As a former employee for the recruiting firm Surrex, I can fully understand their complete ability to misquote and give poor advice for those seeking a career change. For many, this is the optimum time to change careers. With a recession, it is a time for industry to wipe out obsolete industries and career paths. The recession should be a clear indicator that if you are not in a sustainable line of employment, it’s time to move on. The challenge is that many people will have to work harder to get into a new field like never before, to the point that they may have to create their own company to establish themselves in the industry. For the last 6 months, though still employed, I have been working diligently to move out of Aerospace and into Neighborhood Electric Vehicles. I went to Go Green Expo and made excellent connections with several bicycle and motorcycle manufactures and industry education groups such as Plug In America and non-profits looking for support. Mr. Van Dyke of Northrop had it right, it is much more about talking and networking than propping up job fairs like Mr. Peters and recruiting agencies like Surrex recommends. Job fairs are dead and prospective employees looking to go green are going to have to look at less conventional and radical methods to find employment in the future.

]]>